Doping Suspicions About Gold-Medal Swimmer Trigger Angry Response in China

China rallies to support 16-year-old swimmer Ye Shiwen, whose world-record-breaking swim in the 400-m individual medley has raised questions about doping

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Daniel Ochoa De Olza / AP

China's Ye Shiwen competes in a women's 200-m individual medley swimming heat at the Aquatics Centre during the 2012 London Games on July 30, 2012

Chinese coaches, commentators and sports fans have rallied to support 16-year-old swimmer Ye Shiwen, whose world-record-breaking swim in the 400-m individual medley at the London Olympics has raised questions about doping. Ye beat her own personal best by five seconds and swam the final 50-m quicker than Ryan Lochte, the American winner of the men’s event, prompting John Leonard, an American who is the executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association, to call her gold-medal performance “suspicious” in an interview with the Guardian. The allegation has set off a furious response in China, where the Olympics  are closely followed. China took the most gold medals at the Beijing Games in 2008, a point of national pride and a sign of the country’s resurgent national strength.The head of China’s Olympic swimming team rejected any suggestion that Ye may have used performance-enhancing drugs. “Ye Shiwen winning the gold was something we expected, and not worthy of surprise. Her level of training is very high,” Xu Qi told the state-run Xinhua News Service. “We are very excited, but it wasn’t unexpected.” Xu said it was incorrect to compare Ye’s closing sprint with Lochte’s because she was swimming in a closely fought race and had to close a gap on American teenager Elizabeth Beisel, while Lochte had a more comfortable margin on the final leg. And he noted that despite the focus on Ye’s fast finish, her world-record time was 4 min. 28.43 sec., more than 20 seconds slower than Lochte’s winning time of 4 min. 5.18 sec.

Shaving five seconds off a personal best in a race under five minutes is rarely seen at elite levels. At the same time, Ye has shown steady improvement, winning the 400 IM at the 2010 short-course world championships and winning the 200 IM at last year’s Aquatic World Championships. At 16, she is at an age when swimming stars such as Mark Spitz, Michael Phelps and Janet Evans began to stand out in international competitions; Evans set three world records when she was 16. “In Spitz’s time, he was called a once-in-a-century talent, then quickly Phelps came along and won eight golds at the Beijing Olympics, leaving people amazed,” said Xu. “Now the U.S. has Lochte, Missy Franklin and other talents. France and South Africa often have talents emerge. We recognize and admit that these talented competitors exist, so why is it that China, with all its population, can’t have a swimming talent?”

(MORE: Reality or Strategy? China Plays Down Hopes of Beating the U.S. in Gold-Medal Count)

Suspicions against Chinese swimming date back to the 1990s, when the country’s program experienced a series of doping scandals. The women’s team exploded onto the international scene in the early 1990s, winning four golds and five silvers at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992 and then dominating the 1994 world championships, prompting allegations of doping. In 1998 a Chinese swimmer, Yuan Yuan, was caught with a human growth hormone in her baggage while en route to the world championships in Perth, Australia, and four other swimmers were suspended for positive tests. In a recent interview with the Sydney Morning Herald, a retired Chinese Olympic doctor said the doping program in the 1980s and ’90s was state-sponsored and not merely a series of mistakes by unscrupulous individuals.

Chinese officials have said that that era is in the past and doping is strictly forbidden. The team even closely monitors food sources to ensure that banned substances like clenbuterol, a muscle builder that is used illegally by Chinese farmers to speed the growth of pigs and cattle, doesn’t end up on athletes’ dinner plates. In 2008 the Chinese swimmers had a strong showing at Beijing’s Water Cube, prompting a sense that the swimming program had recovered from the debacle of the ’90s.

Thus far there has been no evidence that Ye used a performance-enhancing substance. But the suggestion clearly upset many Chinese, who saw it as part of a pattern of foreign prejudice that Chinese athletes face. The allegation became one of the hottest subjects online on Tuesday, with more than 1 million comments posted on Sina Webio, the popular microblog service. “To have suspicions is ok, and there are normal channels for investigation, but why hasn’t there been any doubts proclaimed that are based on evidence? This is too wretched,” Hu Xijin, editor of the Global Times, a tabloid that is part of the Communist Party–run People’s Daily group, wrote on Sina Weibo. While most Chinese commenters supported Ye, a few raised questions of their own. “Reasonable doubt is normal,” wrote a commenter on a message board hosted by Hong Kong–based Phoenix Media. “Only in an abnormal society do people want to shut every body up in the name of nationalism if they are facing doubts.”

— With reporting by Chengcheng Jiang / Beijing

MORE: The Year of the Woman: The London Olympics Strike Early for Gender Equality

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StopallyourLIES
StopallyourLIES

amerikkkans are known to be world bully amp; terrorist, slaughtering millions of innocent civilians.  You invaded nations on packs of lies.  You torture by employing nations like Libya and Syria, then your dirty politicians go on TV to say "american do not torture". 

Fact is usa out dope China 8 to 1.  Your dirty bully government covered up all the doping of your track atheletes in the 90's.  Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, Griffith-Joyner, etc.  The list is endless.  Their medals were all taken away and you stupid amerikkkans are still talking about these confiscated medals as if they still exist in your hands.

Regarding Vietnam and Philippines, it is you amerikkkans who encourage these countries to unilaterally tear up their peace agreement with China and start claiming land that was never theirs and not included in their submission to UN.   This is the only way your terrorist government can "pivot to Asia", to start war and invasion so that your military industrial complex can continue to profit.  Sheeps like you believe everything your lying government tells you.

Melody Pomeranian
Melody Pomeranian

Chinese are known cheaters and liars.

Fake Nike, Rolex, DVDs, etc. are all around the country.

Some players are caught cheating like game fixing in badminton, under age in gymnastics and PED on various sports.

They even have the guts to trespass Vietnam and Philippines territory based from fake historical maps which is against international law of the land and sea.

Sai Tatapudi
Sai Tatapudi

it is sad that olympics have been filled with jingoism. instead of cheering victories, we keep medal count, pressurize players, and teams to do unthinkable deeds. Sadly, even genuine victories come under such suspicions.

on other note, we pour millions of $ into special clothings, food, etc which are considered legal. i bet this might be one of the reasons why ancient Greeks played naked.

@Chinese readers, please don't be offended by such faux reports. just like urs, our media goes for the silly stuff.

jason024
jason024

Well when your Badminton team is caught throwing matches....it isn't that much of a strech to think someone is doping.

Funny how China is acting all high and mighty. Weren't they the ones who got caught for sending underage gymnasts? 

StopallyourLIES
StopallyourLIES

They did not send under age gymnast.  That was another lie by USA.   They were cleared by IOC.  You people are nothing but sour grapes.  In the mean time, your track and field teams from the 90's were all druggies and your government covered it all up by threatening the IOC. 

SmallSpeakHouse
SmallSpeakHouse

I'm hard-pressed to believe that one girl constitutes massive doping by the state, because if so, many of her team mates should have been breaking records. I admit that years ago, I would have found state doping easy to believe. But now, I think hard proof is needed. Without proof, letting "the debate rage on" is just cruel. Leave it to the officials to investigate if needed.

Blinky1
Blinky1

I cant believe that you alow this comment on your website...

I an shocked that you allow this to be posted about a 16 year old girl.Silky Johnson  She's on EPO and probably some HGH as well.  In June the 16 year old men's relay anchor got caught on EPO.  EPO is EXTREMELY expensive.  Between 1000-1500 US dollars for a normal cycle's worth and then the stuff you buy over the internet is of questionable quality.  It's a high grade pharmaceutical designed to increase hematocrit levels and treat anemia.   It's not something he just got his hands on.  This is a government program.  Dirty slunt

flux8
flux8

Speaking as an American, this was such an unfortunate turn of events.  Mr. John Leonard is the executive director of the American Swimming Coaches Association and he needs to remember his responsibilities as such.  He is allowed to have his suspicions, but to air them in public without a shred of evidence was cruel to the girl.  The problem is that whether he is right or wrong, he just completely ruined a teenage girl's moment in the sun.  If he was right, it would be discovered eventually - there was no need to open his mouth.  But if he's wrong...well, the damage is irreparable and has a ripple effect that goes beyond just smearing this girl's accomplishment for no good reason. It creates a subtle rift in international relations and gives people of other nations the impression that Americans are sore classless losers. It was reckless and irresponsible and Mr. Leonard needs to issue a public retraction and apology.

SeanLim
SeanLim

Indeed. Well said. To jeopardize the relations between the US and China when there are so many common interests and potential for friendship/cooperation is nothing short of criminal.

Haha I don't know why I'm commenting so much here. I shall probably stop commenting and let emotions simmer down abit. But you sir, have restored my faith in Humanity. Rational Americans like yourself ought to speak up more.

bertafiable
bertafiable

I don't see where the U.S would have anything to say about doping, just saying .........

FeninChina
FeninChina

Only in an abnormal society do people want to shut every body up in the name of nationalism if they are facing doubts.”WTF! Ye's new medal just beat the doubts heavily. we don't want to shut every body up. you can say it is not real or it is, but you never gonna beat the truth. 

SeanLim
SeanLim

John Leonard claims that the Chinese have a 'history' of doping in the Olympic games.

Unfortunately, a quick search of statistics on doping put the US (8 dopers), Austria (11 dopers) and Bulgaria in the top 3 for doping since the rules were implemented recently in 1968. China only had 1 who tested positive with volleyballer wu Dan. In fact, there is much greater history of doping by the US than china, with 8 times more incidents of doping. There is more 'historical evidence' to doubt Michael Phelps than Ye ShiWen but of course that did not happen.

This is an obvious point hardly made in the media and is evidence of how distorted and biased reporting in the 'free' media is. Shame on all of us for such poor journalism and sportsmanship

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

Lol another poster here from the party huh?  Only 1 Chinese has failed?  What about the 7 swimmers that popped before the 1994 Asian games.  Yuan Yuan was the one that got caught with all the HGH.  Just back in June, Li Zhesi popped for EPO which is what Ye Shiwen is on.  In total during the 1990s 32 Chinese swimmers were caught doping, two of them twice.  JUST swimmers.  Up through current years the number goes into the 40s.  It took Michelle Smith years to get caught.  Shiwen is going to get caught to eventually.

SeanLim
SeanLim

There is no need to resort to ad hominem attacks. You will be surprised to know that more than 40 million chinese live outside of China, and many have access to western education/technology/combat tactics/use of military equipment from the US. The US can ill afford enemies at this stage especially with so many Chinese in Taiwan familiar with American technology and aircraft/ weaponry. Perhaps some secrets might accidentally be left in the Chinese embassy by mistake. I am not a party member lol but yes I am Chinese but not from china.

Ststistics were from the history of the OLYMPIC games, there were 8 US dopers and 1 doper from china. Given the similar setting, using past data, it is right to assume that in the Olympic games, the US is 8 times as likely as China to be doping.

If you want to include doping incidents outside the Olympic games, of course the US has many many more incidents than that. I was merely doing a point by point comparison of statistics in the Olympics only (which is what this event is ). Not to say that the doping incidents from china in other events were right, but just to state that there was no logical basis for John Leonard's (and his syncophant's) comments.. He has made himself, and all his family members, enemies of the Chinese people not only in china, but also in the US where he resides.

As to you silky Johnson, I suggest you pick up Chinese and have a better world view. Inter cultural exchange and friendship is very plausible without bigoted, close-minded and subintelligent beings sabotaging the process. You still have much hope to be a better human being and a potential brother in our common humanity.

t_hubbard
t_hubbard

Given that the track record of the Chinese people is not angelic – combined with human nature’s insatiable desire – to win…’We sore’ losers have every right to question the use of illegal drugs from ANY country that participates to include our own. The funny thing here is that you speak and write English….You probably live in this country and yet still identify yourself as Chinese first. If your country is so great and above question - than move back. However, you’ll probably be untruthful and say that you’re already live there.

stfusa
stfusa

Since when did we become a nation of 'sore losers'....First it was 'Soviet Union bashing'....Now it is all about 'China bashing'...Anything they do or achieve is either illegal or evil... Wonder who is next?

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 Whoever else is taking EPO in mass quantities like Shiwen is.

alansky
alansky

Considering the Chinese government's well-documented lack of forthrightness about everything else, there is no reason to believe the assertion of Chinese officials that doping is not tolerated in China. But it's still up to those bringing charges to prove their allegations.

StopallyourLIES
StopallyourLIES

and your US government is clean?  Your "clean government" helped covered up your doping atheletes.  You have8 times more doping atheletes than China.  This is fact, not innuandos like yours.

PasstheSteroids
PasstheSteroids

Of course China is doping. They are the new Soviet Union. Everybody knows it. Just test her, disqualify her and move on.

happydayfortennis
happydayfortennis

How are you so sure about this? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Although I do agree she should be tested, I think we should have an innocent-until-proven-guilty perspective until then. Nice username, by the way.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 She's on EPO and probably some HGH as well.  In June the 16 year old men's relay anchor got caught on EPO.  EPO is EXTREMELY expensive.  Between 1000-1500 US dollars for a normal cycle's worth and then the stuff you buy over the internet is of questionable quality.  It's a high grade pharmaceutical designed to increase hematocrit levels and treat anemia.   It's not something he just got his hands on.  This is a government program. 

Dirty slunt

SeanLim
SeanLim

Correction, it's (EPO) aim is to raise the red blood cell count and hence hemoglobin in the body affecting O2 supply. The hematocrit is merely the cellular component of blood. And other factors like dehydration too can increase hematocrit levels. So EPO may raise hematocrit BUT the true effect is not that, nor is it the end desired effect. EPO is available in most hospitals and is used notably in renal failure patients as Erythropoietin is produced by the kidney and in renal failure, EPO production and hence RBC colony stimulation in the bone marrow is decreased.

Silky Johnson, you may want to get a proper education and check your facts before posting online and smearing an athlete's name. Besides, your continued baseless accusations are casting aspersions on the BOA chairman and the doctors inthe UK doing the doping tests, all who have said she's clean. I know you have serious doubts about the UK Olympics committee and it's integrity but I for one, have trust in their objectivity and professionalism. If they say she's doping, ill accept that she's doping. If they say otherwise, then please stop smearing her based on her ethnicity/country.

You bring shame to the entire Olympic spirit of sportsmanship, equality, fairness and non-racist stance. Please consider your actions carefully in the future.

lxmqszy
lxmqszy

Fuck!I think american`s heat heart is black because of their envy and evil !

I am chinese .

catfish63
catfish63

Her performance was incredible, exciting and awesome all at once.  I felt pride for her and I am an American.  She has not failed a drug test and was recently cleared again by the IOC.

She should not have to pay for mistakes that China made in the past but she is.  I just hope she is kept ignorant of this so she does not have to deal with it.

Amitavo Mitra
Amitavo Mitra

wonder boy lochte has failed miserably according to his standards, and everybody else's standards (phelps is somewhere chuckling), and there is no good reason why.

what other way to divert all the attention than to raise unfounded suspicions about another swimmer who is blazing the field.

Gary McCray
Gary McCray

We live in a world where competition and winning are everything.

In our corporate and business world and even our government competing is all important and winning at any cost is the only value.

Successful cheating is valued even more than fair play.

The Olympics are the Acme of competition.

Pressure to "cheat" is never higher.

Any time a new country excels we immediately suspect cheating.

The utter emphasis on winning is destroying us.

Cooperation and mutual support are important, winning is not.

We are going to learn that the hard way.

bruinjoe
bruinjoe

She swam faster in the last 50 m than the man who won the same event.  That doesn't surprise people?

Nishi Hundan
Nishi Hundan

But he already had the race won--he was coasting in. His split time on that let was really slow, so why is everyone making a big deal about it?

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 Because she beat her previous best time by 5 ****ING SECONDS.  That is PEDs

StopallyourLIES
StopallyourLIES

So did the Lithanian swimmer in this Olympic.  Why wasn't anybody raising a sting about her?  Oh I forgot, she is white.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

Because the media know that the American people don't think and this female-faster-than-male reporting angle is such a sure may to fool Americans that the media just couldn't help themselves.

Fla4Me
Fla4Me

Its about like walking on water....  are the Chinese allowed to believe in miracles?

27
27

Of course people will be suspicious, just as they'd be suspicious at anyone who performed such a feat.  The difference being that in the West, you'll get outed by your own country if you do it.

Whereas in China, it has been actively promoted and funded, at least in the past.  They're likely not the only country to use such methods, but the suspicions are there for a reason.

Not to mention that in general, that there has become a general cynicism about athletes all competing on a level playing field with new advances always keeping the best-funded athletes one step ahead of the testing.

So go ahead and feel shame at being suspicioned... you won't be the only ones.

Noah Stephens
Noah Stephens

Right, kind of like the noble Americans at Penn State outed a child rapist... wait a minute...

27
27

There's a significant difference between child rapists and doping.  

The fact is there aren't any state-sponsored doping programs in the West.  We cannot say the same about other developing countries.

SeanLim
SeanLim

Nope, doping has been cleverly relegated to those lower in the chain of command. So as to achieve instant deniability. With 8 times more doping cases than China's 'state sponsored doping' (last and only Olympic doping case in 1992) it seems American doping is much more insidious, established and systemic.

Shuami
Shuami

For Ye, the best answer to all these innuendos is to swim the best of her life and walk away with a gold in 200IM tonight. Oh, yeah, IOC has already come out with clean test report for Ye.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 You are very gullible.  Michelle Smith was on easily testable drugs and she came back clean for 2 years til she slipped up and got caught doctering her urine sample.

Shuami
Shuami

That was then, this is now. It's would be suicidal to try doping now. No way you are going to get away with it, especially for elite athletes. The samples will be saved for 8 years, and anybody with an iota of brain would figure it out that it doesn't pay to cheat.

Shuami
Shuami

And she's golden as predicted (no surprise this time I guess), with a new Olympic record of 2:07.57.

Congratulation!

duduong
duduong

The girl is so young that she has not competed internationally much yet. "Personal  best" here means nothing. She trains in Australia under a well-known coach, who has expressed zero surprise at her Olympic result as it is consistent with her recent  performances during training.

Furthermore, her "amazing" final 50m speed is far from unprecedented. A European female swimmer outdid her by nearly two seconds in 2009 World Championship.

This new round of finger-pointing was an eye-opener to me, not because I did not know that Americans were sore losers but for the widely varying levels of fairness in American media reporting, which serve as a perfect barometer for their racist leaning. NY Times' is full of innuendos while skipping any counter-arguments, thus leaving the unmistakable impression that doping is all but certain. It seems that NY Times is now the new champion in China bashing and racist bias against Chinese. In contrast, The Atlantic actually ran an interview with an American author, who pointed out the media bias and mentioned for example the bashing China received four years ago for evicting Beijing residents to make room for the new stadium. It turns out that East London has done mass eviction on a grander scale, leading to serious riots, but readers in the US would know nothing of it, because it simply isn't mentioned anywhere in the media.

Sai Tatapudi
Sai Tatapudi

dude, infact some former olympians in USA were against such claims. i've seen a couple of them on CNN opined that it is not easy to cheat especialy now they store ur urine sample and can test it years after the event.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 Another member of the party.  Is that the case for your 16 year old that got suspended in June for EPO?

J_Hubbard
J_Hubbard

Given that the Olympic track record of the Chinese people is not angelic – combined with human nature’s insatiable desire – to win…’We sore’ losers have every right to question the use of illegal drugs from ANY country that participates to include our own just as the Chinese people have that same right. The funny thing here is that you speak and write English….You probably live in this country and yet still identify yourself as Chinese first. If your country is so great and above question - than move back. However, you’ll probably be untruthful and say that you’re already there.

StopallyourLIES
StopallyourLIES

According to IOC, USA out dope China 8 to 1.  If fact, between 1991 - 2000, all your track stars doped and had their medals confiscated.  So on doping, you absolutely beat China.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

It looks to me duduong is Chinese American. (I myself is native Chinese).

Obviously he has a desire to be proud of his ancestral country. I've heard Conan O'Brien, a popular late night host, proudly declared on air "I am Irish". Obvious he is Irish American. But was he identifying himself as Irish first?

There are two importance issues. One is that people are really quick at jumping on Asian Americans, especially Chinese Americans, of being un-American. Conan O'Brien could probably get applauded as appreciating his heritage. No country is a saint, but some get glorified and some get bashed. This is called discrimination, no matter how clever you craft your words.

The second issue is that the American society seems to be getting more and more away from objectivity. I first noticed that in sports fans. That was interesting but probably no big deal but some laughs. Now journalism is going the same way in a deceptive way.  For example, Fox News wants to be "fair and balanced", here "balanced" means to be openly biased. The funny thing is CNN didn't fight back by trying to be objective, but by following the trend and becomes openly biased too.

Polarization is powerful but I hope it is not so much as to overcome American exceptionism.

SeanLim
SeanLim

Haha indeed there are many many Chinese in the US, many still loyal to the homeland. And also in the UK, phillipines, thailand, vietnam, singapore, malaysia, indonesia, taiwan, australia. So much for freedom of speech and belief when American Chinese are forced to conform to the notion they must be more American than Chinese. Well let's say 4000 year old habits for hard, and the ancestral homeland/empire has much greater pull than the 227 year old corporate construct that is theUSA. Multiculturalism is a strength but also a great weakness practically (not that I'm against it, I'm quite for it!)

If the African Americans were all armed with AK 47s and RPGs and the native Americans had nuclear devices, would you sleep easy? In Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam there are substantial number of Chinese as well, each with exposure to American technology and weapons. The same in the US, with some in weapons development. The most funny thing is Taiwan, which is like almost 100% Chinese and about half favor reunification, with the opposition mainly against reunification without more equality in standards of living. imagine all those patriot missiles and F16s and American destroyers ending up in Chinese hands. And every year, the US stocks up and upgrades them, hemorrhaging new technology to the Chinese. I won't be surprised if the Chinese are able to build an equivalent of an F35 but sell it around the world at half price using copied American tech.

You are however quite right that Chinese military doctrine has never been about playing fair since the Spring Autumn period of 400 BC. it is about achieving victory at all costs. Ebola bombs, satellite based weapons, nuclear tipped shells and chemical bombs are all acceptable forms of warfare. They will test your resolve to stand by individual liberties and ideas of morality, esp If there's an ebola outbreak. The Chinese are quite ok with quarantining millions and executing non compliers. Are you? Besides, the native Americans and African Americans and Hispanics have many outstanding issues with the Whites. Maybe the breakdown of order will unleash their pent up frustrations from 200 years of repression and indignities and inequality. Make no mistake, in WAR, EVERYONE LOSES. The loss of a few hundred million in china in a nuclear war to achieve victory is unfortunately acceptable to many in China. Can America afford it?

The Art of War is some mean bitch eh? And lets not get to the details of the massive trap that is the south china sea and US asian pivot. They are elaborate designs to lure opponents in and exhaust them. Can you sleep easy at all? The Chinese in the US are many. Very many. We know how to say things not to arouse suspicion. We will 'bash' china in front of you while preparing for war behind your backs. I hope you know which are the real China dissidents living in the US. Many of them (just like some China products lol) are not haha.

and the Chinese speak and write English well, and understand Western ideas and motivations and weaknesses totally, whereas you have no clue as to what motivates the Chinese, what their thoughts are or how they fight. Intelligence is key to victory and you have already lost this battle. We are watching. Closely. It's time for you to pick up Chinese. Perhaps then, you will realise that China is not the real enemy and that friendship is ultimately possible and beneficial between the US and China. And the world stands to benefit from such a relationship. The consequences otherwise are extremely horrific and that's something that even I fear for.

onefa8
onefa8

"Probably live in this country." "Probably be untruthful."

 

Didn't anyone tell you that when you ASSUME, you make an  A$$ of U and

ME?

People like yourself make me weep for humanity.

Shuami
Shuami

So tired of this "if you don't like it here, go home" rhetoric. As if you are the rightful owner of this land! You should pack your stuff and go back to where you belong. The rightful owner of this land are the native Americans!!

duduong
duduong

In terms of Olympic medalists caught doping, the US is number 3 in the world, just behind the Soviets and the East Germans. China ranks substantially lower. I wonder why the average Americans have a perception quite different from reality here...

It is also very well established that Chinese doping in the 90s was perpetrated by individual athletes and their coaches, not by the nation as a matter of policy. In this aspect, China behaves just like a capitalist society that it really is. Once again, on this issue, the average Americans live in a dream world quite detached from reality. American mass media really should be ashamed of itself for misinforming the public.

I have never been to China and have no plan for a visit anytime soon, but what does this have to do with anything? I strive to be the most factual and logical commentator. If I fail, feel free to point out the flaw in my arguments. Where I live or what color skin I have should be totally irrelevant. If you think otherwise or simply cannot judge my arguments on their own merits, you fit the definition of a racist and need to look at yourself in the mirror long and hard.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

 Silky Johnson:

To be fair, China is much more populous and has a bigger share of cheaters.

On the other hand, USA is more technologically advanced, and that technology could include ways on how to cheat without getting caught. Furthermore, they might even be in control of defining doping.

Anyway, there is no point in arguing who is a bigger cheater. Just the fact, to quote a line from LA Confidential.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

Hi, I believe you truly are trying to be objective. I admire that.

But be very careful when you defend China. Sports is used by the government for national glory, so the policy definitely is against any cheating, because China has no problem making people working hard from young age for the sole purpose of glory. There is really no need for cheating.

But China is not a capitalist society. It is the complete opposite. It is a deceptive and unjust society where people work hard under the illusion of national glory and maximum personal gain, just like the athletes.

You may not believe me but I grew up in China and have no reason to bash my own country. This is actually the tragedy of China where the setup is the rulers feel they have to work hard to maintain the system and people have to work hard too. In the end, creativity dies and everyone suffers.

If you are passionately about China, get to know China as it is and find ways to make it just. It might be an opportunity of a lifetime.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 Over 40 chinese swimmers have been caught doping since the 1990s.  You're far and away #1 in the world. 

t_hubbard
t_hubbard

 

Given that the Olympic track record of the Chinese people is not angelic – combined with human nature’s insatiable desire – to win…’We sore’ losers have every right to question the use of illegal drugs from ANY country that participates to include our own - Likewise, China too can exercise the same authority.  The funny thing here is that you speak and write English….You probably live in this country and yet still identify yourself as Chinese first. If your country is so great and above question - than move back. However, you’ll probably be untruthful and say that you’re already there.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

I agree. I heard this from NBC Nightly News where the anchor mentioned doping in the opening statements. I thought something big was happening. It turned out it was merely based on a 50m performance over 400m and the male performance is still 32 seconds better overall. So they not only made a major news item out of speculation, but also showed a lack of sound judgement. This is what is truly unbelievable.

duduong
duduong

You really think so? I think anybody that reflexively bashes China is just volunteering to serve as tools of racist America. Please don't tell me that China is more racist than America. In Chinese cinema, you routinely see (in foreign films) a white man making out with an Asian woman. Have you ever seen a Hollywood blockbuster in which an Asian (or, for that matter, black) man makes out with a white woman? Even Will Smith ended up kissing only black ladies or Eva Mendes. Do you think it is just an accident?

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

The Chinese society is very discriminating, but that is not based on race, but on social status and money. The society consists of clans. Inside each clan people treat each other like brothers with great conformity, and they treat outsiders like enemies. There are no values but interests and a severe "us vs them" mentality. Live in China like a Chinese for while, you will never again take free will and individualism for granted.

As to movies, that is mostly self glorifying. I bet most filmmakers are white males.  But I've seen movies where a minority hero gets the beauty. If such movies tell a good story but many refuse to watch, then it is racism. But I don't think that's the case.

Anyway I think in most cases there are usually more practical reasons but racism as a factor, tends to get more of people's attention.

duduong
duduong

China bashing provides covers for racists just like illegal immigration is no more than a code word for discrimination against Hispanics. (These American code words are legions: "alternative scientific theory" for creationism, "family value" for discrimination against homosexuals, "freedom fighters" for rebels against America's enemies, "terrorists" for rebels against America's friends, etc.) I don't remember the pilgrims receiving any visas from the Indians.

This is why Chinese Americans need to learn that, no matter how repulsed they are by the authoritarian regime of China, they must remain vigilant against unfair and reflexive China bashing. Let the media cover those dissidents all it wants, but, if they start accusing a young girl of cheating without a shred of evidence, it is time to speak up.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

I really appreciate your effort, that's why I have to tell you that people who bash China the most are those who had suffered defeat and/or agony at the hands of the communists either in the Chinese Civil War or later in the Cultural Revolution. One such person, Gordon Chiang, wrote a book ten years ago named "The coming collapse of China". And whenever there is some major political news about China, CNN would drag him on TV to talk about his book, like a realtor calling the next bottom every month.

You see, CNN wouldn't comment about China, but they gave the microphone to someone of the same race who would. So it is not really about race.

duduong
duduong

I meant that average Americans have been trained to think twice before saying anything offensive to the Jews and blacks. No such restraints are in place for Asians and to a lesser degree Hispanics.

Democracy is messy; this is particularly true when it has been hijacked by special interests as in the US for the past 40 years. Fighting for progress requires blunt truth. You may feel that I cry "racist" too often, but have you considered the possibility that racism is so wide-spread and deeply ingrained in American culture that people are just used to it and no longer notice it?

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

Well, I don't think China bashing is because of race. It's more like rivalry between two nations.

Many Asian Americans are actually quite unfriendly to the Chinese government, to say the least. Automatically linking China with Asian or Chinese Americans might cause more racism in America.

duduong
duduong

Thank you for your personal message. I certainly understand your points if not totally agree to them.

You may have noticed that I am not pro China per-se but really just against reflexive China-bashing. My first and foremost concern is the prevailing racist instinct in modern American society. The Jews and blacks have largely won their battles and a line has been drawn in the mind of most Americans regarding behaviors towards them, however these Americans may really feel. Such a civil education process has not yet occurred in regard to Hispanics or Asians. As a result, even prominent media outlets such as Time still employ clear-cut racist reporters like Hannah Beach, who churn out extremely biased articles on a regular basis. Poking holes in her reports was how I started commenting. I may even venture to say that my writing has elicited livelier discussions on these forums over the past year.

I look forward to exchanging views with other rational thinkers. As for those irrational commentators, they serve as perfect illustration of my criticism on the ills of American society.

IQMinusOne
IQMinusOne

I understand your were actually responding to my other message so that a notification would be sent to me.

But I don't get this line "the Jews and blacks" have drawn in the sand. If there are things that are un-related to race, and you attribute them to race, then that is racism. So I am very interested if you could explain some more about their battle and exactly what kind of  behavior they expect from most Americans.

happydayfortennis
happydayfortennis

I think America feels slightly threatened by China, since the latter is currently the leader in total Olympic medals (not to mention its growing economy and the $3 trillion we owe them). Whereas last time around, China won the most gold, but America still led overall so the American media can still rightfully say that "America has won the most medals in every Olympics since 1996." 

If America had twenty medals and China had four, I don't think Time would have posted this article and made it the most prominent on the front page. Go USA!

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 Or it's just that to people that know what's going on it's obvious she's on the juice.

happydayfortennis
happydayfortennis

But how do you know this for sure? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Where is the smoking gun? I'm not saying she's definitely innocent, but it's not fair to automatically assume she's guilty either. 


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